Is anyone prosecuting these cases? Perhaps distinguishing between the mother who, exhausted, falls asleeep with her child and suffocates the child versus the drunk/high on drugs mother who takes the infant to bed with her and suffocates the child. Our elected, Judge Susan Reed, is curious...

What crime?

You would definitely have to differentiate in situations where drugs and alcohol are involved. There are respected experts out there who advocate co-sleeping and there are studies which indicate that there are benefits to both the mother and the child. I'm assuming you would be going under child endangerment, and I think you would have an extremely hard time proving a criminal case for endangerment against a parent who was following expert advice, was doing so safely, and had a tragic accident.

we had a similar case recently. we looked at injury to a child causing serious bodily injury or death, also negligent injury to a child, and criminally negligent homicide. We presented the case to a grand jury, which ultimately decided that our particular case was not quite right for an indictment

Absent intoxication, I'm having a hard time envisioning being able to prove any culpable mental state.

Well, what if it's the second child that has died sleeping with mom and she was warned after the first time to cut it out?

quote:

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Originally posted by JB:
Well, what if it's the second child that has died sleeping with mom and she was warned after the first time to cut it out?

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Then you ought to be prepared to make CNN with the prosecution, because, as stated above, you're going to have a pretty significant portion of the pediatric community disagree with you. Dr. Sears is probably the best respected pediatrician of this generation, and he's a vocal advocate. Even last generations pediatric expert, Dr. Spock, at least grudgingly acknowledges that any risk is very small.


Even for a second occurrence you'd still have to establish that the parent was at least recklessly or negligently ignoring some generally accepted warning regarding co-sleeping. Two deaths resulting from parents sleeping on a couch (a big no-no) and you've got a case. Two deaths with a parent following all applicable guidance from mainstream pediatricians, and I'd be looking at a genetic link to SIDS. Like most hypotheticals, the devil's in the details.

I didn't say we indicted it.

We are a long way from having sufficient expert consensus on this issue to say that it is a known dangerous activity. Just look at the arc taking place in deciding whether use of a cell phone in a car is a known danger that can establish criminal negligence or recklessness. It wasn't until texting was being used that people began to accept it as a bad activity.

Another comparable activity is leaving a child in a car unattended. Add some Texas heat and people begin to agree that it is a very bad thing to do. But, that was not something that was true when we were kids. How many of you were left in the car with the window rolled down a bit while Mom went in to the store? These sorts of community standards evolve but they can be identified by decisions to prosecute that begin to be successful.

But there's a difference between something that moms may do (leaving kid in car while running into the store) and something that doctors actively encourage. I don't think that you can compare leaving a child in a car unattended, even without the heat factor, to co-sleeping. You would be hard pressed to find any pediatrician who would say that there are any benefits to leaving a chid alone in a car, but you really don't have to look very far to find a respected doctor to tell you that there are significant benefits to co-sleeping.

I'm not trying to compare activities or experts. I'm only pointing out examples of activities that once were considered OK or benign and, over time, became considered dangerous. And, in particular, the criminal laws continue to evolve in recognizing the need to protect children against recognized dangerous practices.

Not so long ago, DWI with children in the car was punished the same as plain DWI. Then, along came an internal enhancement that made the crime a felony. Shocking at first, normal now.

Agreed, there do seem to be plenty of experts who think sleeping with children is OK. But, there are also experts who think it is dangerous, especially for the very young child. Now, there is not enough of a consensus to make it a per se dangerous activity. And maybe there never will be. But the fact that there is a dispute is worth noting and may eventually be partially resolved by adoption of some criminal law standard.

I'm not taking a side at this point. Just noting how the criminal law is part of the social code that helps society form a consensus and identify a dangerous activity.

Given the number of deaths attributed to faulty or recalled cribs, could you also envision indicting a mother who has a child die while sleeping in a crib? If so, what alternative do parents really have? It is hard to say that you are endangering a child by either co-sleeping or putting them in a crib.

It's an interesting question: at what level of risk does it move from accident to civil negligence to criminal negligence?

Forget the doctor's opinions for a moment, isn't this a case of res ipsa? The co-sleeping led directly to the death of a child, so we can pretty much all agree that in those cases it was a dangerous idea to co-sleep.

Seems that the real question might whether societal notions of what is safe are the question. right now, it could be we are in a society that says co-sleeping is acceptable, even if in a rare situation a child dies. That could change, and society could say that the risk is never acceptable and the conduct could lead to criminal consequences if something happens.

Compare shaking a baby. The conduct was always there, and it wasn't until there was an education campaign that the shaking was dangerous (something that seems to be a given when it comes to suffocating a child in a co-sleeping situation) spanning a decade did society adopt the addage "never, never. never shake a baby."

Then the prosecutions came behind that societal awareness....

In the future, will we have a "never, never, never sleep with a baby" campaign?

But by that logic, substitute the concept of driving for co-sleeping, and what you have is:

The driving with the child in the car led directly to the death of a child, so we can pretty much all agree that in those cases it was a dangerous idea to drive with the child.

That's ridiculous. Again, assuming that the parent wasn't intoxicated, how can you say that just because a certain action - driving or co-sleeping or whatever everyday activity, led to a child's death - that it was a dangerous activity? Are we going to start prosecuting parents who get into car accidents where a child is injured or killed, even if drugs or alcohol or something else overtly negligent isn't involved, simply because of the fact that a child tragically died?

Sometimes a child death is just a tragedy, not a crime.

How would you distinguish between intentionally cosleeping and that "accidentally" cosleeping when mom is nursing/feeding in the middle of the night and falls asleep due to exhaustion? I never intentionally fell asleep with my child but it happened on a few occassions just because of the lack of sleep that goes along with having a newborn.

Society has recognized that driving has a utility, and thus a certain number/type of deaths on the highway are acceptable. However, society has indeed criminalized some behavior over time, like allowing kids to ride in a car unrestrained. Used to be OK. Now, very bad. Could a parent be prosecuted for negligent homicide of a child if the parent causes an otherwsie minor wreck but their child dies because the child was unrestrained?

So what's the societal utility of co-sleeping? Will there come a point where society recoginizes that the potential danger greatly outweighs any benefit? That is all I am saying.

With shaken baby, perhaps an easier thing -- shaking, no up side, but big potential for injury. Now, a person can get the ultimate criminal punishment for it.

Does any one know the rate of child death for children who sleep in their own cribs (from SIDS, suffocation, choking, etc.) vs. children who safely co-sleep with a parent? And by safely co-sleep I mean sleeping in a bed (not couch or chair) with a non-intoxicated parent.

Just curious. I've seen claims that the rate of child deaths for babies in their own cribs is actually higher than that for babies who co-sleep.

I just checked a few of the parenting sites that talk about co-sleeping. It appears there is no definitive research either way. However, there is some research that suggest room-sharing (sleeping in the same room with the infant but not the same bed) can reduce the chance of SIDS.

According to the articles I read, one of the benefits of cosleeping is that the baby and mother both stay in lighter stages of sleep and awake easier. This is beneficial because some the SIDS cases are caused by the infants being in to deep of sleep and unable to wake themselves.

The Department of Family and Protective Services has launched its "Room to Breathe" TV and radio campaign to prevent the accidental suffocation or strangulation of infants while they sleep. The TV ad shows a crib full of ominous-looking stuffed animals (alligators and wolves), and then warns viewers their babies should be sleeping alone, and in their crib, to protect them from danger.

Roughly 400 Texas babies die in their sleep each year; last year, Texas Child Protective Services investigated 167 infant deaths that occurred while babies slept with adults or older children. According to an agency press release sent out Monday, "while the exact causes of many of these deaths are unknown, many might have been prevented by simply giving babies 'Room to Breathe' when they sleep."

The campaign may not seem controversial, but the message is sensitive: Many Texas parents believe "co-sleeping", or sharing a bed with their child, is an important nurturing tool, and better for the child than leaving the baby alone in a crib. These parents have argued co-sleeping can be done responsibly.

Details.

So if this campaign is coming from TDFPS, can parents then assume that if they are co-sleeping they will automatically be investigated for child abuse if it is reported?