I handled a case this past year that was very similar in a lot of ways to the Ramsey debacle.
A 2 year old was brought into the ER by her babysitter and ended up dead. Child abuse was not immediately obvious but suspected (she had a transected duodenum). The parents rushed to the ER and were understandably devastated. The detectives and CPS immediately decided that dad didn't seem "distraught enough" and so he must have done it. Surely it couldn't have been the pretty, female babysitter.
So CPS swoops in and takes their 2 older kids (who they kept for a year)and immediately seeks to interrogate dad and mom. Mom is interrogated for 9 hours on the night her baby dies. Dad's family sees what's going down, hurries to get him an attorney and he invokes. Well, that did it. Police pretty much ignored EVERYTHING about the babysitter b/c it just had to be him b/c he invoked.
Never mind the babysitter's long, long history with CPS (including an acquittal for almost killing a child she'd babysat 5 years earlier), her inconsistent stories about how this injury supposedly happened, the fact that she'd been w/ the baby for 7 hours before. It all became completely irrelevant because dad must be guilty otherwise why wouldn't he talk?
Long story short, he remained a suspect for a lotta years before the initial investigators got off the case, a new investigation was done and it became obvious who the guilty party was. (Brief aside - not a good idea to say the police did a "crappy investigation" during your closing argument. May have been true, but it's guaranteed to get quoted in the paper and not win you any friends over at the local PD! )
Anyway, after the jury convicted the babysitter of capital murder, several told me that they didn't blame dad a bit for invoking and would have done the same thing under the circumstances.
Dad was actually on CNN last night talking about how awful it is to be accused of killing your own baby when you're completely innocent.

By Lisa Tanner:

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Never mind the babysitter's long, long history with CPS (including an acquittal for almost killing a child she'd babysat 5 years earlier), her inconsistent stories about how this injury supposedly happened, the fact that she'd been w/ the baby for 7 hours before.

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Makes me glad I don't have to worry about babysitters anymore!

No matter how nice your next door neighbor may seem, and how reasonable the price is, DO NOT allow her to provide day care for your children unless she is a licensed provider. Period.

How did the father's refusal to further cooperate help the investigation? All it did was make the police think they had the right man, because such behavior is almost always inconsistent with innocence.

The father you described would not have gotten himself into more trouble by repeating the truth when asked by police. You don't get indicted for sneezing the wrong way.

Ultimately, the case is reviewed by people other than the original investigators. A prosecutor looking at such a case where the police's suspect has readily and consistently stated the same story, and the only evidence against him is that he didn't appear distrought enough at the ER, is going to be concerned asking for an indictment. If the suspect testifys at the grand jury, you have yet another group of outside people who look at the case, and may decide to no-bill.

If the suspect is still indicted, a defense atty. can make a much more persuasive case of innocence to the trial prosecutor if his client has always cooperated with police, because such behavior is consistent with innocence. If that doesn't work, the defendant can take the stand, and he can truthfully state: "I cooperated with the police from the get-go. I am innocent."

In my jurisdiction, all defendants are asked if they wish to testify before the grand jury. Most who do end up incriminating themselves--not because they sneezed wrong, but because they admit elements of the case against them. But it is not at all uncommon for defendants to help themselves by explaining their actions (resulting in a better plea rec from the DA's Office), and sometimes they are no-billed. I even had a def. atty. call me to make sure his client would be able to address the grand jury. He did so, and the GJ no-billed.

I don't think an innocent man has anything to fear by telling the truth.

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I don't think an innocent man has anything to fear by telling the truth.

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I lose a large number of venire every trial I handle who make this very statement. Of course, my folks are just "not guilty" and not innocent.

Confession not always the way to close case

JonBenet ordeal has experts looking at the psychology of false admissions

By MATT CRENSON
Associated Press

It's rare, but not unheard of, for some people to confess to notorious crimes they did not commit � and suspicions have been raised that John Mark Karr was one such false confessor.

Picked up by police in Thailand on Wednesday, Karr readily admitted that he is guilty in the slaying of JonBenet Ramsey. But aside from his confession there is little public evidence linking him to the 1996 crime, leading some experts to speculate that he is either lying or delusional.

"Many high-publicity crimes have these people coming out of the woodwork," said Elizabeth Loftus, director of the Center for Psychology and Law at the University of California-Irvine.

More than 200 people confessed to the 1932 kidnapping and murder of Charles Lindbergh's infant son. The 1947 "Black Dahlia" murder � the slaying of aspiring actress Elizabeth Short, who was found naked and sliced in half in a vacant Los Angeles lot � attracted numerous spurious confessions.

Lawyers for the Ramsey family said Friday that a number of people have confessed to the killing of JonBenet, none of them with enough credibility to attract the attention of law enforcement.

"Often you're looking at a pathological need for attention," said Saul Kassin, a psychology professor at Williams College in Williamstown, Mass.

There are other reasons that people confess to crimes they never committed. Some people are tricked by police interrogation tactics. Sometimes people confess to take the rap for friends or relatives. Others relent under questioning and agree to anything that will end the ordeal.

There is the story of Nazi commander Heinrich Himmler who lost his pipe while visiting a concentration camp; he found it later in his car, but six people had confessed to stealing it.

It is even possible for people to convince themselves that they have actually committed a crime they would have considered unimaginable.

In 1988 Richard Ingram, a sheriff's deputy in Olympia, Wash., confessed to the ritual sexual abuse of his daughters after being convinced by leaders of his church that Satan had compelled his actions and then erased his memory of them.

"People can come to believe that they did things, saw things, experienced things that they didn't do or see," said Loftus, who is known for implanting false memories in subjects' minds.

Psychoanalysts have suggested that some false confessions can be motivated by a subconscious psychological need to be punished for something a person wants to do but hasn't. Karr has been convicted on child pornography charges and has expressed fascination with young girls in general.

Kassin said police can usually see through false confessions by asking a few questions about the crime that only the culprit could answer. Tracey and others have said Karr knows details he could not have gleaned from press reports and other sources, but so far no specific examples have been given.

Ramsey Suspect's Writings Offer Clues

By DEBORAH HASTINGS
AP National Writer
BOULDER, Colo. � The writings are the stuff of love letters: unrequited obsession, reaching beyond the grave, from a man who pledges all to someone he can never have.

They were written to a dead 6-year-old girl by a teacher named John Mark Karr, who also claims he killed the child, JonBenet Ramsey, in her parents' home 10 years ago. And now anything he's ever written is headline fodder.

Boulder prosecutors are in contact with a former classmate of Karr's because a yearbook signed by him more than 20 years ago may explain why a ransom note in the Ramsey home was signed "S.B.T.C.", the Rocky Mountain News reported Friday.

In the 1982 yearbook, Karr ended his missive with the line: "Though, deep in the future, maybe I shall be the conqueror and live in multiple peace." Investigators wonder if "S.B.T.C" means "shall be the conqueror."

The newspaper also published excerpts of the worshipful e-mails Karr sent to University of Colorado journalism professor Michael Tracey, who produced several documentaries on the Ramsey case.

"JonBenet, my love, my life. I love you and shall forever love you," according to an e-mail Karr sent on Dec. 23, 2005, just before the anniversary of her death. "I pray that you can hear my voice calling out to you from my darkness � this darkness that now separates us."

"Sometimes little girls are closer to me than with their parents or any other person in their lives. When I refer to myself as JonBenet's Closest, maybe now you understand," he wrote in another message.

Police asked JonBenet's mother, Patsy Ramsey, if she would meet with Karr. The mother was willing, but she died from ovarian cancer in June before investigators went any further, family attorney Lin Wood said.

And she never saw Karr's words because his messages were secretly being intercepted by authorities. "He thought that he was corresponding with Patsy, but he wasn't," Wood told The Associated Press.

Karr, 41, is in a Thailand jail awaiting deportation to face U.S. charges of first-degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault. He told reporters he was with JonBenet when she died in the basement of her Boulder home on Dec. 26, 1996 but her death was "an accident."

Karr is scheduled to fly to the United States on Sunday, a police official said Saturday.

"The tickets for John Mark Karr's departure are ready," Thailand's immigration police chief, Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul, told reporters. "He is leaving for the United States on Sunday evening."

A U.S. Embassy official, speaking on condition of anonymity, could not confirm Karr's departure date, saying that authorities were working through legal paperwork to expedite his deportation.

On Friday, Suwat recanted details he gave of Karr's confession � details that raised suspicions that Karr was lying to gain entry to a sensational killing that fascinated him.

Suwat initially said Karr confessed to sexually assaulting the girl and giving her drugs. But her autopsy showed no signs of drugs. He also told reporters that Karr had claimed to have picked up JonBenet at school, though her death came during the holiday break.

On Friday, Suwat confirmed to the AP his account of the sexual assault. But asked if Karr gave the girl drugs, Suwat said the suspect described the encounter as "a blur." Suwat said the part about JonBenet being picked from school was based on his recollection of watching a documentary about the case.

Other Karr claims drew scrutiny Friday: Prison guards searched the death row cell of Polly Klaas' killer after learning he may have corresponded with Karr. No letters were found.

But a Northern California woman exchanged e-mails and recorded hours of phone conversations with Karr in which he described his fascination with JonBenet's and Polly's slayings, according to published reports.

Wendy Hutchens, 49, of Roseville, Calif., told police about her 2001 conversations with Karr weeks before the Sonoma County Sheriff's Office arrested him on five misdemeanor child pornography charges, The Press Democrat of Santa Rosa reported Friday in its online edition.

There is no public piece of evidence tying Karr, a divorced father of three, to Colorado. Eric Yoder, an investigator for the Colorado Department of Education, said Karr was never licensed to teach in the state and there is no record of him applying for a teaching job.

In Washington, federal officials said they want to question Karr about his writings and confessions, including an e-mail from Karr claiming he was under investigation in four states for child murder and molestation.

"There is no four-state federal case" in which Karr is wanted or even suspected, said a Washington official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the case is being handled by local prosecutors in Colorado.

Tracey, the professor, refused to discuss the e-mails he received from Karr.

The Ramseys' attorney suggested authorities may have more against Karr than his confession. "There have been e-mail confessions in the case before," Wood said. "John Ramsey has received e-mail confessions in the past and nobody was arrested."

Patsy Ramsey's sister said the family would wait and watch.

"We are optimistic, but it's wait-and-see," said Pamela Paugh from her home in Roswell, Ga. "We've been patient for nine and a half years, what's a few more months?"

There's only one thing for sure, as Rosanne Rosannadanna used to say: "Well, Jane, it just goes to show you, it's always something."

It seems the media and the Thailand 5-0 are backing off their original claims that the killer knew only things the killer would know.

I know we all like to try cases with that detail in confessions, and we've all seen murder cases where the compulsion to confess is at least partially compelled by a guilty conscience.

But like Paul and Jay pointed out earlier in this thread, there are a multitude of reasons why a false confession might occur. Not the least of which is him being pure-D crazy.

I'd like to see the family get some closure, because if he is a false confessor, then the Ramsey family is just being victimized again.

And the media goes wild...

unfortunately, I have an injury to a child case (thankfully, the child recovered but almost died that day) that happened while the child was with a small, in home licenced day car provider. Scary world.

for licensed day care providers.
Went early to pick up my two from their licensed facility on Friday and only one of them was there.
Talk about make your heart stop.
They had him off site on a "field trip" they didn't get preapproval for.
Needless to say he won't be back there Monday.

As far as the Ramseys, I have to agree with Terry, I can't imagine anything I wouldn't do to help with the investigation if only just to get the 5-0 to get off me and on to the real killer. And if I remember correctly, the Ramseys didn't just go out and hire an attorney, they hired a media image firm, now if that doesn't raise a red flag, what would

Scary world indeed.

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...Tracey and others have said Karr knows details he could not have gleaned from press reports and other sources, but so far no specific examples have been given.

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I know they've backed off this a little, but with all the coverage and the volume of books written by so many people on the inside of this case, I would think a truely obsessed person could seem pretty knowledgeable about it just by doing his homework.

I think this nut-job is eating up the attention he's getting (not to mention downing all the champagne provided to his Business Class plane ticket).

I was thinking that the death of his newborn twins might have set him off down the creepy road and obsession with young girls, but then saw they were with his 16 year old bride AND came after his marriage to a 13 year old was annulled after about a year, so.

That same ex-wife (the 16 year old) says even though she hates his guts, but he was with her at the time of the kidnapping in another state.

I got a feeling that this cat just wishes he had done it, dreams about having done it, and may even think he done it. But...

MSN new is reporting a Denver post story that: 1. Creepy guy's DNA does not match sample found on child's body (under fingernails I think) and 2. that DA is going to dismiss the case...As I posted earlier being here is a whole lot better than being charged with SEX crime in Thailand..I think he some pedo charges still pending in California. Whole lot better there. So, if not creepy guy, then WHO did it???

I hope they got a sworn statement from him. Charge him with False Report. Make him repay for the Bus.class Ticket home, then deport him back to Thailand for a little of their down home loving.

This little clip is from Karr's attorney:

�We�re deeply distressed by the fact that they took this man and dragged him here from Bangkok, Thailand, with no forensic evidence confirming the allegations against him and no independent factors leading to a presumption that he did anything wrong,� Temin said.

(I especially like the part about how Karr was "Dragged" back here.)

Sooo... Now I guess he is going to raise hell about a false arrest, being unjustly accused and his reputation is tarnished. Just how is he supposed to get a job teaching 2nd graders here in the states now that he has been accused of this horrible crime (which he claimed to have been involved with)? The government should be ashamed.

I hope every time I get "dragged" somewhere, it's business class with shrimp and champagne!

[from the Borowitz Report," a satire ... ]

JonBenet Suspect 'Lacks Credibility,' Says O.J.
Urges Search For Real Killers

August 21, 2006

Former football great O.J. Simpson weighed in on the latest developments in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case today, holding a press conference to say that the prime suspect in the case, John Mark Karr, "lacks credibility."

Mr. Simpson, who said that he has spent almost every waking moment of the past eleven years searching for the real killers of his wife Nicole, remarked that it was unusual for him to take time out from that tireless search to comment on another murder investigation.

"But I felt that I had to say something about this, because I strongly believe that the police got the wrong guy," Mr. Simpson said. "And all I could think of was, man, d�j� vu."

The former Heisman Trophy winner said that after hearing Mr. Karr speaking at a news conference in Bangkok, "There were holes in his story you could drive a white Bronco through."

Mr. Simpson urged Boulder Country District Attorney Mary Lacey not to "rush to judgment" and instead to focus on finding "the real killers" of JonBenet: "From all the evidence I've seen, I think Columbian drug lords could have been involved."

The NFL legend said that while no one in Boulder had asked him to lend his investigative skills to the search for JonBenet's real killers, it was unlikely he would be joining such an effort in any event.

"What with looking for my wife's real killers and all, my plate is pretty full," he said.

I haven't read this thread for a few days, or I would have posted earlier. I tried a 'person' once for injury to a child, she confessed orally, and the jury found her not guilty (crappy investigation). Then, when I had my son, I put a blind ad in our local paper for a nanny - guess who called!

For the first time, I watched the Nancy Grace show in it's entirity last night. I've read the positives and the negatives about her before, and that is not my topic of discussion here.

Grace did read excerpts from the 90+ page affidavit, and boy, I think the DA is covered in the event of a malicious prosecution or wrongful arrest case based on the comments Karr made to his email buddy. To say the comments about having sex with children in general and specifically JonBenet is an understatement.

Now that they have his DNA, it will be interesting to see if anything turns up.

Finally, how can child porn be a misdemeanor, as it apparently is in the case in Cali?

And now, the media frenzy will turn to Sonoma County, California...

I was reading an article on this case in today's Dallas Morning News, and I found a wonderful line: "The announcement by Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy incited a storm of questions about why Mr. Karr, 41, had been believed in his admissions and how he could have led prosecutors into what became an elaborate global farce. Hordes of reporters had tracked Mr. Karr's journey, from his apprehension in Thailand nearly two weeks ago to his return to the U.S. "

Prosecutors were led in an elaborate farce, but oh no, let's not blame the media responsible for trumpeting the man's guilt from day one!

The real moral of this story is that prosecutors do have to be careful not to believe anything they read in the papers -- unless it's the San Jose Tattletale, that is.